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ticket #2019082010004668[edit]

I have a question regarding File:Okjökull glacier commemorative plaque.jpg. It's stated that the copyright holder is Rice University. But on https://news2.rice.edu/2019/07/18/lost-glacier-to-be-honored-with-memorial-monument/ it sais that Grétar Thorvaldsson is the copyright holder. I suspect that Grétar was never notified of the image being used on Wikimedia, though I have no proof of that. Steinn inn ♨ 20:02, 8 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pinging @Nsaa as fellow Agent. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 11:22, 9 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I would also like to know more about this. We do not generally approve "forwarded permissions". The size of the file here is same as that of the one linked above. The date on this link is July 2019 and the image was uploaded here in August. Clarification is a must in this case. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 17:43, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Pinging Ganímedes as well. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 17:44, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My only intervention was to request a direct permission from the copyright holder, nothing else. I've never accept the ticket, since we've never received the direct permission, because the customer told me I should contact the CRH by my self, thing that I don't do. It's up to him to communicate with the copyright holder since he is the one who request the photo and forwarded the email (and no specific license it's quoted by the forwarded CR). --Ganímedes (talk) 22:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks @Ganímedes. That's what I mean. There is no explicit permission. Not sure what made @Nsaa to add permission tags to the file. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 09:05, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm not sure, either; that's why I pinged him. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 20:13, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

His last contribution was on 6 jun 2022. --Ganímedes (talk) 23:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

and elsewhere on 7 December 2022. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 23:28, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Then maybe it's faster to let him a message in noWP. --Ganímedes (talk) 01:34, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've left them a message there. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 02:23, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The file has been released by Rice per VTRS ticket https://ticket.wikimedia.org/otrs/index.pl?Action=AgentTicketZoom&TicketNumber=2019082010004668 Best regards, Nsaa (talk) 08:02, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ganímedes, Nsaa, Steinninn, TheAafi, and Asav: I contacted them by myself. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 15:50, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jeff G., I'm still confused: where is the direct permission? The permission is forwarded by a fellow volunteer who was told that we do not accept such permissions. There's no response of the permission acceptance either. If the file is here credited to someone else (Photo by Grétar Thorvaldsson/Málmsteypan Hella), how is Rice University the copyright holder? This needs reinvestigation. Best, ─ The Aafī (^talk) 19:48, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Rice University is itself crediting it to someone else. Why is that being missed? ─ The Aafī (^talk) 19:49, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just a side note, please ping @AafiOnMobile because I'm on a journey and thus not very much available on the system. A ping on my mobile would catch my attention. Thanks, ─ The Aafī (^talk) 19:53, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@AafiOnMobile, TheAafi, Ganímedes, Nsaa, Steinninn, Asav: We now have higher resolution File:Okjökull glacier commemorative plaque on rock.jpg. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 14:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This image was duly licensed as CC-by-sa by Rice University, which holds the copyright to it. As a photographer myself, I have taken hundreds of pictures for newspapers and magazines, and naturally, they retain the right to relicense these images to others. When one of the New York Times' photographers takes a picture for the paper, s/he is credited in the byline, but the Times retain the rights to relicense or resell it. That is exactly the case here, and this prolonged "investigation" is simply nonsensical. Personally, I have nothing more to add here. Asav | Talk 14:54, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks ASAV, I fully agree with you here. There are no issues here. This case can be closed as keep seen from my perspective. Nsaa (talk) 03:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Those who assume work-for-hire is universal will be bitten eventually. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 03:55, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Jeff G., you are right. I agree with what Asav has said but do we have a proof that Grétar Thorvaldsson/Málmsteypan Hella were hired by the Rice University? Perhaps only then can we approve of any "copyright policies/terms" of the Rice University. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 13:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@TheAafi, AafiOnMobile: I emailed Grétar Thorvaldsson for direct permission. — 🇺🇦Jeff G. ツ_{please ping or talk to me}🇺🇦 15:16, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks @Jeff G.. Shouldn't the permission tag be changed to "pending/awaiting VRTS verification" until we receive a response from Thorvaldsson? ─ The Aafī (^talk) 18:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2010070810008688[edit]

This is truly miraculous. Karl Deutsch (founder of the company) died in 1974 and took this photo in 2007. What on earth did they tell you in this VRT communication?

On their German WP user page, the uploader first tells us that they got permission from the photographer to publish this as "own work", which quite obviously is not the truth.

Next, they tell us that they sent an e-mail with the permission by the company CEO, who quite obviously is not the copyright holder either. Neither is his company (impossible by German law).

Doesn't the VRT team check if the person who sent the e-mail is the copyright holder in the first place? And how trustworthy are the permissions for the other uploads by this user? --87.150.6.64 17:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi 87.150.6.64, I'd definitely like to help you with this. The ticket contains a signed permission document dating 26/7/2010. The ticket makes a mention of photographer who takes all of the photos for the company called "KARL DEUTSCH". The permission does not come from the photographer and there is no evidence of the transfer of copyrights either. @Krd, what is your opinion on this because you happen to be somewhere to this language. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 18:43, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I personally suggest that the permissions be revoked and not considering the long-time of these images on Commons. A new legitimate permission be sought. ─ The Aafī (^talk) 18:45, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for your reply, and for taking care of this!

Re "there is no evidence of the transfer of copyrights either": There cannot be. It's not possible by German law. --87.150.6.64 20:32, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@AFBorchert, anything on this because you were the one who dealt with this... ─ The Aafī (^talk) 03:51, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The photographer has been identified in the ticket (not the founder Karl Deutsch). The photos are attributed to the company Karl Deutsch who contracted the photographer to take these photographs and to grant unrestricted usage rights (according to § 31 Abs. 3 UrhG). --AFBorchert (talk) 08:31, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How do we know that the photographer has agreed to do so? Is there any explicit evidence for this or just a signed document from the company? In my opinion, the confirmation from the photographer should be there - if there is not any proof that they did the work for the company - just the company's claim that the photographer did so and so? ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 08:45, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

In this ticket, I relied in good faith on the signed statement of a representative of the company (not just anyone but a „geschäftsführender Gesellschafter”, i.e. a shareholder who is also a chief executive). And the identification of the photographer (right from the beginning without having to ask for it) is usually a good sign. It is correct that we (in the support team) tend to involve the photographers as well to get their confirmation. This ticket is 12 years old, this wasn't common practice at that time. --AFBorchert (talk) 10:00, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks AFBorchert for the clarification. 87.150.6.64, do you have any other queries? Please feel free to ask. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 10:03, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, yes. I am sure the company representative acted in good faith and believed they were entitled to do this. However, they are not copyright holder, no matter which usage rights they may have bought. Thus they cannot decide on the license. Copyright is non-transferable by German law (except by death and inheritance).

Not quite sure what the age of the ticket has to do with it. A copyright infringement isn't any less of an infringement just because it's been on here for twelve years. --87.150.7.46 16:47, 21 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please make yourself familiar with the law, i.e. with § 31 Abs. 3 UrhG. Quote: „Das ausschließliche Nutzungsrecht berechtigt den Inhaber, [..] Nutzungsrechte einzuräumen.” Hence, usage rights can be passed by the copyright holder to someone else in a way which allows to sublicense this work. These sublicenses are persistent, see BGH, 19.07.2012 - I ZR 70/10, I ZR 24/11. We have no reason to believe that we have a case of copyright infringement in this case. The verifications of the VRT tend to be more thorough now than in earlier times. But this doesn't mean that the declarations given for the older cases are per se untrustworthy. --AFBorchert (talk) 17:35, 23 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am familiar with that law. The point is the difference between Urheberrecht and Nutzungsrecht. The "Inhaber" of "Nutzungsrechte" can grant "Nutzungsrechte" to someone else within the limits of whatever Nutzungsrechte they have bought, sure. But they cannot relicense an image, granting others more Nutzungsrechte than they ever bought.

We do not have reason to believe that we have a case of copyright infringement? Really? So far, we don't even know name of the copyright holder. It's not Karl Deutsch, that's for sure. What license did the Urheber sell it by? A CC license? No photographer in their right mind will sell their photos with a CC license.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not accusing anyone here of doing anything wrong. And personally, I could care less about this image or any copyvio. I am not going to be the one to be sued. The reason I insist is that I have, in recent times, seen this kind of thing a number of times, and I think there may be a misunderstanding or two about the differences in copyright laws of different countries. --87.150.7.38 22:02, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Just FYI on a side note: The entire Karl Deutsch article on the German WP was copyvio. The current company editor of that article has had all his uploads deleted because of copyvio. Might be something to consider. --87.150.7.38 22:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Krd 14:42, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How to find permissions[edit]

I can't find a place where I can search and find all the different permissions granted. For instance if I want to check if we have a general permission from IUCN, {{IUCN map permission}}, how/where would I go about to find that and all the others? thanks --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 15:30, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Goran tek-en, I'm not sure but the concerned ticket:2010061810022172 must be containing everything on which the permissions have been granted. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 16:09, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

and Commons:IUCN Red List might be helpful. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 16:11, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@AafiOnMobile Thanks but I didn't make my self clear, sorry.

Is there a way to search and find all the different approved permissions? When I as a graphic worker wants to use material from a specific place (like IUCN) I would like to be able to know if the have granted a permission. --please ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:34, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, there is no way to find all permissions. --Krd 14:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Krd 14:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2011050810006762[edit]

Could somebody please check whether this ticket is valid only for the original 2011-version of this image File:Francesco altobelli.jpg or also for the image-version uploaded in 2013. --Túrelio (talk) 16:44, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Túrelio, the ticket dates 2011 and doesn't mention any future versions. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 17:07, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 17:13, 30 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2022090210007002[edit]

Hi, Could someone please check this ticket? See related discussion here. Yann (talk) 14:02, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No permission achieved in the ticket. --Krd 14:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. --Krd 02:47, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2007090610014151[edit]

Hi! As far as I understand, this ticket allows Commons to use audio files produced by the cellist John Michel. Most of these files are the music of classical composers died long ago. However, in some cases Mr. Michel is playing works of contemporary composers who are quite alive:

So I wonder if composers Maria Newman and Jason Marsh also have given their permission for using their works. Andrei Romanenko (talk) 04:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Andrei Romanenko, no permission in this ticket from any of the composers, permission only came from the performer, regrettably. I saw also music from Samuel Barber (who died 1981) in Category:John Michel. Kind regards, Ellywa (talk) 13:00, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. Ellywa (talk) 22:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

File:林海音.tif[edit]

This image is a derivative work of several photos of unspecified origin and copyright status based solely on the description page. Please check if ticket:2017112310007121 (presumably written in Chinese) contains any info regarding permissions of those photos as opposed to just the derivative work itself. Wcam (talk) 17:05, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Wcam, The ticket doesn't mention any info about things beyond the derivative work. Pinging @Taiwania Justo who passed the ticket back then. They might have some ideas. They don't have access to VRT currently ─ The Aafī (^talk) 17:24, 1 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am not VRT member right now due to long absent, so I cannot remember this case unless I can read this letter. This is Taiwania Justo speaking (Reception Room) 10:51, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ticket:2022122010005116[edit]

Hello, I've been entrusted with the photo File:Kao, Min-lin.jpg to upload, but it was deleted so soon. The owner had mail to VRT and get the ticket number as title. Just want to know the request is passed, rejected or still waited for someone to check. Thank you.-- Reke (talk) 03:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Reke: , this is in queue and has not received any agent's attention so far. Best, ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 05:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This section is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, replace this template with your comment. ─ The Aafī on Mobile ^{^(talk)} 05:25, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

wrong ticket[edit]

i believe the bot marked the file with wrong ticket. i emailed you, and maked someone emailed you, and we recieved a response. but, i believe bot put ticket on wrong file.

please look:

[[ticket:2022121710005104|ticket:2022121710005104]]

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Kadıköy'de mahsa amini afişi-1.jpg#File:Kadıköy'de mahsa amini afişi-1.jpg ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 22:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]